Start2011-12-30 18:30 America/New_YorkEnd2011-12-30 19:30 America/New_YorkLocationNC State CapitolDescriptionGA Minutes for December 30, 2011
Welcome
- Facilitators: Charles
- Stack taker: Chris
- Minutes taker: Rachel
- Transcribed by: Rachel
No new people.
Reportbacks
Occupy Cherry Hill
Kurt: Cherry Hill is a small town in NJ. I drove by their Occupation twice. They have 2 tents, 4 people, and the biggest banner I’ve ever seen in my life. They were picketing in the afternoon AND at about 11:30 at night.
Diversity
Charles: I have contacted some musicians for the Black History Month Fair. One is a traditional African drums. The other is a husband-wife Southern gospel team.
Proposals
Shawn reading for Shaun: Proposal to ban Robert. We had a deescalation meeting with him a few nights ago. We had several members of the occupation come forth ahead of time with grievances. Those were:
1. Panhandling in the name of Occupy Raleigh on Hillsborough St. for “donations.”2. Panhandling at the occupation from visitors, guests, and weekenders.3a. Sexual harassment both in the form of asking those guests, visitors, and weekenders to sleep in his tent3b. AND a failure to maintain personal space and appropriate touching.4. Theft $180 from camp from local on-site donation.
As such, we discussed appropriate process and applying it. We discussed that if he paid us back the $180 and some form of apology to those sexually harassed and Occupy Raleigh, we would begin the 48 hour probationary period. We did keep in mind that both Occupy Chapel Hill and Occupy PA have both asked him to leave due to theft.
HOWEVER.
Robert denies any guilt in stealing 180 dollars from the camp, even though we have witnesses who say otherwise. As such, the 180 dollars will not be recovered and therefore we cannot do a 48 hour probationary period. In light of this, deescalation temporarily banned him until Friday’s GA could discuss further action. In the meantime, we know who donated the $180 dollars and will be double checking with them to make sure Robert is the offender in question.
This further action is to ban him permanently at the GA on 12/30.
Robert: I will pay back the $180.
Jes: Does that mean you’re saying you did it?
Robert: Yes, I did. I will pay back the $180 I was accused for. I will take a 48-hour probation.
Chris: You just said “accused.” Are you going back on admitting guilt?
Robert: Yes.
Jes: Robert, did you take $180?
Robert: Yes.
Chris: Will you change that answer?
Robert: No.
Clark: Can you tell us why you did it?
Robert: I needed the money.
Chris: You get everything you need at the camp.
Robert: I needed cigarettes and stuff. I do apologize to everyone here.
Vincent: I have two questions. 1. Do you have a time frame for bringing the money back?
Robert: By January 3 or 4.
Vincent: 2. Are you an addict? There’s not much you need that isn’t at the camp. Did you get high?
Robert: I used it for alcohol.
Clark: Do you have any comments about the other items on the list?
Robert: I plead guilty to all of them.
Tayloe: Have you stolen anything else?
Jes: While people were cleaning out your tent, Robert, they found the lantern that’s been missing for the last two weeks. Why was it there?
Robert: I’m being completely honest, I did not take the lantern.
Phoebe: What about the Occupy Raleigh sign?
Robert: I have no means of knowing where that is.
Charles: I’m pretty sure a random drunk guy took it.
Shawn: Only a quarter of the concern is the money.
Tayloe: Since there were witnesses to the theft, are any of them here? I want to know whether the money was donated to Occupy Raleigh or the North Carolina Occupy Movement Resource Center (the camp).
Charles: Most of the time people don’t clarify.
Jes: It’d have gone to me and I’d have bought stuff for the camp site.
Phoebe: Robert, did you have anything to do with the pizzas sent to us tonight?
Robert: No.
Jes: Where will you get the $180 to pay us back?
Robert: From next month’s disability check.
Vincent: Last night you told us you had to go to New Bern to get the check.
Robert: My father lives there. I’ll have him put the money in my account. I can use my card to get it out.
Clark: I want to say that it was good of you to admit it, Robert.
Margaret: I want you to speak to harassing women.
Robert: I apologize for that and won’t do it again.
Tayloe: When we met last Monday at the camp and talked about de-escalation, we all agreed that apologies would not be accepted for physical violence and theft. Has that changed?
Clark: I think in the past where we forgave someone for theft.
Tayloe: But what about as of last Monday? We decided theft and violence were unforgivable crimes.
Jes: In light of our last de-escalation meeting, we kind of talked about how theft can be amended, which is in a forthcoming proposal.
Angela: The real question to me is there’s a fundamental lack of trust; trust has been broken.
Robert: I understand that.
Angela: The question we have to ask ourselves is, are we really okay with trusting it will be fixed? Policy only goes so far. The real question is, can we repair this?
Robert: Yes.
Charles: My issue is, if this happens again, what is the policy with a repeat offender?
Jes: Zero tolerance.
Rachel: When was that decided?
Jes: I don’t remember, either Monday or Wednesday.
Clark: I think our policy is still up in the air. I think we should do what is best here and worry about the rest later.
Angela: I agree.
Margaret: Can I ask Robert what we can do to prevent this from happening again?
Robert: Put me on a three-week probation.
Angela: Robert, what do you need to have happen in your life so this doesn’t repeat itself?
Margaret: That’s a different question. I want to know what Occupy Raleigh can do to protect the donors.
Robert: Keep me away from all the women and donors.
Margaret: Do you think it’s easy for people to do this?
Jes: To be fair, we do have precedents where an individual stole from us before–same fashion, smaller amount. We gave that person a chance to amend the situation; they’re still around, they contribute, they’re awesome. To be consistent, it’s a good guideline. Also, I’m not going to police Robert. Personal responsibility.
Angela: That’s why I put it back on you, Robert. Is this group important enough to you to be willing to change your behavior?
Robert: Yes.
Phoebe: If you were kicked out of the other Occupations for the same thing, what makes this group different?
Robert: To see if I can improve myself.
Phoebe: But how? This has been a consistent thing. How does it change just because we’re Occupy Raleigh.
Robert: Because I said I won’t do it again.
Jes: But how do we know that?
Robert: Keep me away from women and donors.
Phoebe: Who is Bradley Manning?
Tayloe: The Wiki Leaks guy.
Phoebe: I’m asking Robert. What are the core values of the Occupation movement?
Robert: This is a tough one.
Phoebe: The people here know what the movement is about. I’ve asked other people these questions to see if they’re there for the movement, or if they’re there for our resources.
Paul: What makes you want to Occupy?
Robert: Because I haven’t done it.
Charles: What’s your personal motivation for joining the movement?
Robert: Learning about stuff that’s discussed.
Phoebe: The core values involve nonviolence, sobriety in the camps, protesting economic corruption, as I’ve experienced the core values.
Angela: Robert, do you understand why you’re being asked?
Robert: Because I’ve done something wrong and I have to be punished.
Angela: No, why you’re being asked about the movement. It’s not worth investing in changing your personal behavior if it’s not for something you believe in. You need to ask yourself why I’m really here. And it’s not for a place to sleep–that’s not what we do here.
Robert: I have nowhere else to go.
Jes: There are shelters.
Robert: I’ve tried.
Angela: Is that your primary reason?
Robert: Yes.
Angela: Thank you for the honest answer.
Margaret: My understanding is that Occupy is about people being fed up with others (1%) stealing money.
Clark: That’s not the same.
Angela: I want to stop for a minute because this is important. I want Robert to have a chance to say he understands the implications of us making a decision for him to leave. It’s important for him to be on-board with this. I want Robert to think about, if you’ve admitted you’re just here because you need a place to stay. If you need our help to find a place to stay, we can work to help connect you with community resources. We don’t need to have you at the camp in order for us to do that. Is that all you need?
Robert: No.
Angela: What else is it that brings you here?
Robert: I have no family. I was neglected.
Angela: Are you here for the community, to have people around?
Robert: Yes I am.
Angela: When you’re in a community, people have to trust you. In order to be part of this community, you cannot break that trust.
Robert: I understand that.
Angela: Do we all think that the sense of community is a reason for him to stay?
Russ: There may be others at the camp who are here for a place to stay.
Charles: Yes, but this is just about Robert for now.
Jes: So you’re saying if we let them stay, we can’t use that against Robert?
Russ: No, I mean we need to talk to them too.
Vincent: Are you on any medicine, Robert?
Jes: You don’t have to answer that.
Angela: I realize I’m out of process, but is there any information about your health and your ability to process information or disability or any other private information you feel comfortable sharing that will help us understand how you think? Is anything affecting your ability to make good decisions?
Robert: Yes. I have a tendency to forget things I am told. I have ADD. I also have bipolar and brain damage. I never really tell anybody. I have a problem with myself. I can’t comprehend certain things very well. When I was born, my umbilical cord was wrapped around me.
Angela: That makes a difference, thank you for telling us. That doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t have a responsibility, but that helps us.
Robert: Like I admitted to taking money, I am dead serious, I will pay that back January 3 or 4.
Charles: Let’s take a stack for concerns. We’re off-topic of the actual proposal. The proposal is to fully ban him.
Jes: As much as it would be cool if we could help everyone with all of their various issues, the Occupation is not a shelter, a soup kitchen, etc. If some of us are social workers, we’re not acting in that capacity at the Occupation. So while any cognitive differences might be a factor in people’s behavior, we can’t take it upon ourselves to police, correct, and counsel those. First, it’s practicing illegally. Secondly, we have to ask if we want to consistently deal with the problems of those who are unable to police themselves. I need to keep that in mind and you should too.
Clark: I feel like we should consider all the possible options. One option is, complete ban until the money is repaid and maybe a GA to discuss the issue where Robert can come back and say more about what the movement is about. Learn about the movement if you want to be a part of it. Then there’s the separate issue of banning from the camp.
Kurt: Any GA proposal can be overturned with a future GA proposal.
Clark: I think it would be good if it was put into the proposal though, it would give a window of hope.
Phoebe: I’d like to say something but not in front of Robert. Can we ask him to leave for a few minutes? If not, okay.
Robert: That’s okay.
Phoebe: The idea that I had was that we leave the option open to overturn this GA decision, and to say “yes we still want the money back, but no, we don’t want you involved in the movement any more.” The day he returns the money, we can tell him we do want to consider his involvement, to see if he is serious.
Charles: Shawn, are you willing to accept that friendly amendment?
Phoebe: We can tell him he is welcome at GA, but not at the camp, permanently. When he comes back with the money, he can stay.
Margaret: He can read the minutes online. Secrecy is bad.
Phoebe: I withdraw it.
Clark: I move we ban him until he repays the money, then discuss at GA again what happens with him.
Chris: What about the sexual harassment?
Charles: Some women won’t come back because of him. Sexual harassment was one of the issues with Tank, though, and we let him stay. We should give Robert the issue as well. I like Clark’s amendment. Are we willing to accept it?
Kurt: POI: The wording of the proposal is to ban Robert from the camp, not from Occupy or GAs.
Phoebe: So he isn’t automatically allowed back at the camp when he repays the money, and we’ll decide later.
Clark: Yes. Personally, I think we should also ban him from our Direct Actions.
Jes: It’s a public space, though. And, we can see if he shows up and does them.
Phoebe: POI: Asking him to leave or shaming him out is the next step if you don’t want him at an action.
Charles: Friendly amendment accepted. Let’s call the question. Stand-asides? Charles (don’t feel comfortable with him at all). Angela. Thomas (I’m not there enough to make the decision). Blocks? None. Consensus? Yes.
Phoebe: Robert, we just consented that you are banned from the camp area. You can come to the GAs and Direct Actions. You are banned from the camp. When you return the money, we’ll hold another meeting like this to decide if you can come back to the camp.
Robert: I understand.
Tayloe: I’d like to know how we can stay in touch with you. We’ll be working on getting you some support and help.
Robert: I have no phone.
Tayloe: So how can we get in touch? Do you use email?
Robert: I have Facebook.
Tayloe: Okay. Angela, will you be the point-person on that?
Angela: Okay.
Tayloe: Robert, make sure Angela gets your Facebook information.
Clark: Needless to say, don’t steal more stuff.
Shawn: And don’t steal to get the money to repay us.
Robert: Do y’all want me to leave?
Paul: You’re banned from the camp, not the GA. You can stay.
Margaret: We should address these repeating problems.
Charles: We are in a future proposal.
Clark: This is not a whole other proposal. I just want to say that the discussion of our process is ongoing. There’s a thread about it in the Upcoming Proposals forums. I’d like to hear more opinions about it. We’re not addressing it tonight, but…
Announcements
Kevin: Not long ago, Walkupy came through. Yesterday they had an action at the Greensboro Civil Rights Museum. They had a press conference and released a document. You all should read it. We should give the statement at the State House at the end of March. A working group should propose this.
Phoebe: I’ll be leaving in a few days, the 1,2, or 3rd, going back to NY. Everyone stay in contact with me. I’ll give anyone who wants it my phone number or email. I want everyone, later this summer, to be involved in the July 4 Philadelphia Washington Square Park action to draw up a new Constitution for the U.S.
Kurt: For it to be official, don’t we need one more state to petition?
Phoebe: I don’t know. I’m not concerned with that. We didn’t have permission from the British originally. Also, this is not an Occupation of Washington Square; camping is not a constitutional right, so we’ll have to find food and lodging separately.
Kurt: Around the country, many courts have decided a tent is free speech, in the last month.
Kurt: I have several announcements. 1. After this GA is a coordination meeting. 2. Expansion and Tactics is meeting right after that. 3. Wilmington no longer has a camp site. I don’t know the official status of Charlotte, but they are abandoning the camp site. Currently, Chapel Hill is a fake occupation (Clarification: This was said in regards to the fact that the campsite isn’t being used anymore, and was not intended to mean that OCH is “fake” or that they don’t do anything, just that the campsite wasn’t being used. It was referring to a physical occupation.); they are taking the camps down January 10. Raleigh and Asheville are the only remaining camp sites. We should be proud, but it’s sad. Winston-Salem isn’t doing well, but they’re awesome, like we were when we were stubborn on the sidewalk. Winston-Salem has continually done direct actions. They could use our help. I have an idea but anything y’all can do, do it. People were arrested there yesterday. Walkupy has another petition related to Winston-Salem. I’ll put it on the forums. Tomorrow Winston-Salem is having an action. If you want to go, talk to me or Jes; we have contact info for Walkupy.
Tayloe: Why did Charlotte break up?
Kurt: There were 4 people arrested for flag burning and charged with arson. Last announcement, the donors for the January lease for our camp site met (Rachel, Jes, Kurt met, and other donors are Vince, Josh, one other person, and maybe Antonio). We have $345 of the $400. The rest is promised. Rob, the land-owner, will wait until January 5 for us to re-sign. I will sign the next lease and give him the cash. The reason I wanted to sign the lease is so it’s clear to everyone that this land is for Occupy Raleigh, not me; anything that happens there is for the group to decide, not me. I only asked that De-escalation come up with behavioral guidelines; I want no part in that meeting.
Tayloe: Try to talk Rob into $300 into $400.
Kurt: I’ll try.
Charles: A man stopped by earlier who said he wanted to do a large donation for the camp; he’ll be there around 7:30, possibly now.
Phoebe: I know we posted now “no cash donations,” but if he has cash tonight, we should take it.
Jes: I accepted $20 today anyway.
Kurt: Anyway, the land will be Occupy Raleigh, not the blah blah blah Resource Center.
Rachel: Taking minutes really keeps me from participating in the GA. If anyone can help with it, please please please.
Charles: Saturday at 9:00pm is Dead Poets Society. Every Sunday at 9:00pm is a Diversity Meeting. I still need help with HKOJ on February 17.
GA adjourned.
CategoryGeneralAssembly CategoryMinutes CategoryGeneralAssemblyMinutes